Belarusian and resident of Cyprus Viktor Kisly has been running the Wargaming company for 17 years, which managed to create one of the most popular multiplayer games in Russia and the former USSR - World of Tanks.

The game began to rapidly gain users, and they began to actively pay for items within the game. In 2012, World of Tanks brought Wargaming $218 million, and last year its revenue more than doubled: according to Superdata, the company earned more than $500 million from “tanks.” The crisis tempered the excitement of players - they began to spend less time playing computer games and began to pay less. Wargaming plans to compensate for the drop in revenue with growth in international markets, new projects and promotion of the game in eSports competitions (computer game competitions), which, according to Kisly, can develop into a new media reality.

Before the crisis, the main market for Wargaming was Russia and the CIS countries. What now?

The player structure hasn't changed much. We all understand that the tank is literally hardwired into the DNA of the Russian person and nothing can be done about it. Residents of the former Soviet Union play tanks a lot and have not stopped doing so. Americans are more spoiled, they need beauty more on consoles, and we just launched World of Tanks on Xbox 360 a year ago and are now making a version for Xbox One. Most likely then there will be some increase in the number of users in the United States.

For example, in Japan there are few computers. They play mainly on PlayStation. But if a Japanese person falls in love with a game, he will never get out of it. And this is the most paying audience, but in terms of numbers they are few when compared with other countries.

We started with Mother Russia, the CIS. In the very first week of closed testing, Poles and Czechs began to actively join - they also really love tanks. Icelanders and Scandinavians in general also joined.

To distribute World of Tanks around the world, we have made efforts to localize it in different countries.

Now the game's audience is distributed approximately 50:50 - this is Russia and the countries of the former USSR, the other half is the rest of the world. The dynamics are moving towards an increase in the international audience.

We are gradually increasing our work in America, Europe, and Korea. We just recently started working in Brazil. We are not covering the countries of the Middle East yet, since Arabic script is written from right to left and we will have to “mirror” the entire game.

Has the crisis in Russia greatly affected Wargaming's business? Are people paying less for artifacts in the game?

These movements in the ruble and euro were not in our favor and led to a decrease in the dollar equivalent of revenue. But the game itself does not force players to pay money. You can spend an amount comparable to several movie tickets, and a student can generally play for free.

We have 25% of paying users, and this is a very good indicator compared to other games. World of Tanks is built in such a way that you cannot spend $1000 a month there, because there is no product for that amount per month. $10 costs a premium account, plus a couple of tens, well, a hundred dollars for collectible tanks ($5-40) or internal currency.

Overall, it is clear that purchasing power has decreased.

Superdata analysts estimated Wargaming's revenue in 2014 at $505 million. How correct is this estimate?

I would not like to comment on this assessment, since large companies do not like to give direct assessments of their business.

First of all, this is due to competition. We are not alone in this area - there are similar games, and there are also complete copies. This is a very competitive industry and if you know how much money your competitors have, you can roughly predict their maneuvers. Therefore, it’s good if your competitors have no idea how flexible you are in your maneuvers.

I can only say that Wargaming’s revenue is measured in hundreds of millions of dollars. It is clear that due to the fall of the Russian ruble, our dollar revenue, to put it mildly, has not increased. It doesn’t really matter how much you haven’t grown.

But it is not only the macroeconomic situation in the world that affects income. For example, last year we released a new version of World of Tanks, in which we made several technical errors. They released vague historical battles. In two months, the number of players fell by 20%, and in the fall the price of oil fell, the ruble fell, and income fell again.

Is there a drop in audience or in revenue?

And so and so. They play but don't pay, pay but don't play. We felt it was getting worse. They began to take measures. For example, in the case of the ruble, we offered users purchases at a lower rate: people liked it. Therefore, such jumps have happened to us twice over the past year: an unsuccessful technical patch and the economic situation at the end of the year.

Do you disclose how much the average user pays? How much is it in Russia and in the world?

Frankly, I don’t know the exact number. And there is no point in talking about it, given that the game reaches such a global scale. In addition, very different age groups of the population play - from seven years old and above. I believe that it is necessary to watch separately an adult and a schoolchild, a Russian and a Japanese.

We have built our game in such a way that a person voluntarily pays as much as he can afford and this is very important. There are games where if you don’t pay, you won’t progress further. Such games make people make impulse purchases - especially conveniently done through mobile devices.

Payments into your game are more complicated. Are you making it difficult for yourself to do business?

No, we could immediately make some kind of diamond tank for $10,000, but people wouldn’t understand. We could only afford this in China - a gold tank costs $400.

Like gold iPhones, which are very popular in China...

Yes, but you need to understand that our game is international. As soon as you introduce something in one country, it instantly begins to be discussed throughout the world. And for this golden tank, which we made at the request of our Chinese partners, our people told us: “not good.” So we won't do this anymore.

Besides WoT you have World of Warplanes and World of Warships. How popular are they?

We were in a hurry with the planes, we made a mistake. We are now looking into this and trying to fix it. Everything is very good with the ships. So far, according to all statistical indicators, everyone around the world likes everything.

Last year you entered the American market. How successful? How are things going on international markets in general?

We didn’t completely take over the States, that’s for sure. This market is very competitive, but we got our audience there - older men who take their children to tank museums and watch the Discovery Channel.

In Europe and the USA we still have room to grow. But in Russia the market has become saturated. It is impossible to find a man in Russia who has not heard of the game.

Are you planning to make your own shooter?

We at the company are discussing different options, but so far we have neither a shooter nor ideas for it.

Are you going to do or promote anything else?

In this regard, we act dynamically: if there is an opportunity, we try. For example, we hold eSports competitions. If they are successful, we do them again. This is very painstaking work.

We are not interested in short-term revenue. It’s better if the income is small but stable. A business like ours must be conducted calmly.

In April, you held a World of Tanks competition in Poland. How do you generally assess the prospects for esports?

It is impossible to say what will happen, for example, in 5-6 years. So far, eSports is developing very well.

It is now clear that eSports is growing so quickly that we can already assume that it will soon become very big, comparable to the regular Olympic Games broadcast on TV.

In 20 years, will we be watching the Cyber ​​Olympics?

Quite possible. E-sports is actually being born before our eyes; it is a completely new phenomenon. This is first and foremost a show.

Business is already being done on this basis. The same Twitch was recently purchased by Amazon for $1 billion. People play and millions of other people watch it.

Hard to tell. For us, eSports is still a marketing tool that helps attract an audience. But everything is moving towards the fact that all this - games, competitions - will become a new media reality. In all this, of course, there is already an element of Hollywood.

Why did Wargaming decide to leave the Cyprus Exchange in 2014?

In 2012, we decided to go to the Cyprus Exchange because we were starting to build a company headquarters in Cyprus and run it completely from there. The shares were not traded on the stock exchange. According to the rules of this exchange, this is possible. It was an offering that imposed all the same restrictions and requirements as a classic IPO. We plunged ourselves into the abyss of this responsibility so that we had no chance of violating it. We did this for several years. We got what we needed from this: we got some name, grew up a little and felt more confident in this stormy sea of ​​financial instruments (laughs). We don't need this anymore.

Are you planning to go public?

Well... never say never.

Last year you said that Wargaming suffered from the Cyprus crisis, as a result of which the company became a shareholder in Hellenic Bank and acquired a building in Limassol. How much did the company ultimately lose?

Wargaming is the largest technology company in Cyprus, we are actively involved in the economic and social life of the country, and therefore the past crisis was not just an unpleasant moment for our corporate interests, but a problem for all company employees living here. We regularly pay all taxes, actively promote the reputation of Cyprus, and contribute to the development of this country, so it is not entirely correct to talk about any losses. Of course, we went through certain difficulties, but, as in the case of the purchase of shares in Hellenic Bank, the crisis also opened up new opportunities for us.

Our company is one of the current shareholders in Hellenic, there are people who represent our interests there, but our participation in its work is limited. Wargaming is primarily a developer and publisher of games known all over the world, so activity in other areas is not so important for us.

The Cyprus economy grew by 1.6% in the first quarter of 2015, and the country is gradually restoring its financial and investment attractiveness. The local authorities have very accurately and consistently carried out the reform program that was recommended by the eurozone countries and the IMF, and in the long term we look at the economic situation in the country with great optimism.

Will the countries of the former USSR be able to become convenient for doing international business in some foreseeable future?

Wargaming unites studios from Kyiv, St. Petersburg, Minsk, as well as offices in Europe, Asia and the USA under one roof. In the countries of the former USSR, we feel support and interest in the company, in our initiatives to restore military equipment and popularize history. In the future, any country can become a comfortable place for business.

How does Belarus react to the fact that such a large company has moved to another country and pays taxes there?

Minsk was and remains the heart of Wargaming; the company’s largest office is located there, where World of Tanks is completely created: from writing code to organizing e-sports competitions. World of Tanks Blitz is also developed there, and the financial and legal departments are also located there. The staff numbers about 2000 people.

After the crisis began in Russia, many companies moved to other countries. Are Russian programmers coming to you?

Yes, we began to receive a little more feedback from programmers from Russia, but both Europe and the USA are actively interested in our vacancies.

Our Minsk development team is working on tanks, Kiev is working on airplanes, a studio in St. Petersburg is preparing ships, a team in Chicago is working on the Xbox version, and Seattle is creating a new, as yet unannounced project.

What new things await us in the transition to smartphones and tablets?

Very soon we will come to the point where good games will be available anywhere at any time. In such a situation, the winner will be the one who gives the players an enjoyable and exciting experience, an interactive world with great opportunities.

Is WG planning anything in the field of virtual reality?

Virtual reality technologies have made a real breakthrough and we have already developed and released a special game mode for Oculus. It allows the player to take a different look at the gameplay, enjoy the effect of presence and get new sensations from tank battles. By the way, the implementation of technology turned out to be a very labor-intensive process. We needed to rebuild the in-game menu, radically redesign the gameplay UI and create a specific control system.

We are not tied to one platform and are constantly developing games for new devices. If technology becomes mass, global, accessible, our games will definitely appear on it.

“We are saving. As long as we have reserves, the world respects us"

Tatyana Golikova tells where the pension reform has stalled, how to limit the salaries of managers of state-owned companies and what kind of optimization the state apparatus needs

Tatiana Golikova almost a universal official - she was responsible for the budget in the Ministry of Finance, and then fought with former colleagues, dealing with social policy, worked in the government and the Kremlin. In recent years, she has been monitoring the officials with whom she previously worked. Knowing the problems from the inside, she knows where to look. And he sees the key defect of power. Officials are afraid of responsibility - the main thing is to enlist the support of the leader, and not to propose a solution and be responsible for it, she describes the situation in an interview with Vedomosti.

– Accounts Chamber criticized the draft federal budget for 2018–2020. in his conclusion, noting that its foundation - the macro forecast - is very shaky. Is the budget that unrealistic?

– We do not criticize, but assess possible risks. The GDP growth included in the draft budget has raised many questions. The government expects the economy to grow 2.1% in 2017 and accelerate to 2.3% by 2020, counting on investment to be the main driver. Minister of Economic Development Maxim Oreshkin believes that this summer we grew precisely due to investments, especially in construction. But Rosstat revised last year’s volume of work in construction and increased it by 1 trillion rubles. - Against this background, the indicators for the nine months of 2017 have worsened, and it is doubtful that investments in construction will show such growth, especially if we exclude large construction projects - stadiums, the Kerch Bridge, the Power of Siberia gas pipeline.

The Ministry of Economic Development expected economic growth of 2.2% in the third quarter, but Rosstat’s preliminary estimate is noticeably lower - 1.8%, for nine months - only 1.6%. For the forecast included in the 2017 budget to come true, in October–December the economy, according to our estimates, should grow by 3.6%. Of course, there will be salary increases, contract payments, and a seasonal increase in consumer spending, but this is not enough. But this is the basis for calculating the budget for 2018–2020.

The Ministry of Economic Development expects that investments will grow in the next three years, including thanks to the infrastructure mortgage program, the “project financing factory” and support for small and medium-sized businesses. But what contribution they will make to growth is not estimated in the forecast. We only heard Oreshkin's assessments in his speeches. At the same time, the program of preferential lending to small and medium-sized businesses, according to the forecast, ends in January 2019, and the “factory”, which provides state guarantees for 294 billion rubles, given our bureaucracy, will not start working immediately. In the best case, in mid-2018, and its effect will appear either in the medium or long term. Infrastructure mortgage will give 1 trillion rubles over three years. The ministry is waiting for investments, but it does not disclose how this trillion is formed.

Moreover, although the growth rates in the scenarios (baseline and target) of the forecast are different, the structural measures in them are the same, and their contribution in the target scenario is for some reason less (provides for higher GDP growth - Vedomosti) than in the base scenario. Perhaps just carelessness. We suggested either including more structural measures in the target forecast or overestimating their impact. Colleagues left this without comment.

– Chairman of the Center for Strategic Research Alexei Kudrin believes that it is possible to soften the budget rule - set the cut-off price not at $40, but at $45 per barrel. Don't you think the rule is harsh?

- It does not seem. Next year will be a transition year, and we will continue to spend the National Welfare Fund (NWF). The strict rule will come into effect in 2019, only then will we begin to replenish the National Welfare Fund. We have significantly increased our reserves, and we should not forget that the National Welfare Fund is also intended for the long-term balance of the pension system.

We save because we hedge possible risks with reserves. As long as we have reserves, the world respects us. But as soon as they are reset, we find ourselves in an absolutely risky zone, including due to the sanctions imposed against us. In addition, there are still no long-term proposals for the pension system and its balance - the solution to this issue is also constantly postponed.

– Kudrin believes that a softer rule will provide room for budgetary maneuver - increasing spending on healthcare, education, and infrastructure.

– The devil is in the details. Alexey Leonidovich apparently proposes to reduce “unproductive” spending on defense and security in favor of “productive” ones - on education and healthcare. But I do not agree that spending on defense and security is unproductive. There are procurement, construction, social support, military pensions, healthcare, education. Many defense enterprises are city-forming enterprises. Products of the military-industrial complex make up 5.4% of our exports, although not much, but there is an upward trend. This is a high-tech production.

If we redistribute money in favor of health care and education, then which one – from the federal or consolidated budget? Healthcare is financed by the federal compulsory medical insurance fund and regional budgets, education - by budgets of all levels: higher - by the Federation, secondary vocational - by the regions, general - by municipalities. Should we redistribute powers, raising them partially to the federal level? And who to take it from - from the defense?

– Yes, and expand the weapons program, as Kudrin proposed.

– They extended it even under Kudrin [he was Minister of Finance until September 2011], they gave state guarantees to defense enterprises. And in 2016–2017. they were fulfilled ahead of schedule so as not to subsequently waste federal budget resources on subsidizing interest rates on commercial loans raised under state guarantees.

– So you think the cost structure is optimal?

- I don’t think so. I'm talking about something else. The problems of pensions and healthcare cannot be solved only by increasing funding. The social insurance system is not yet ready for modernization.

Most of Alexey Leonidovich's proposals are fair. Both in the 2020 strategy and in the main directions of the government’s activities, everything is written well and correctly. But there can be no proposals without implementation mechanisms. Because of this, it is not possible to fully implement these programs in the first year of their implementation.

Any program requires answers to difficult questions: for example, whether to raise the retirement age, or whether to introduce co-payments from the population for some services.

Pension law doesn't work

– The pension system was reformed five years ago. What is the result?

– The new procedure for calculating insurance pensions (point formula), the introduction of which was largely associated with the latest pension reform, did not work. This procedure formally came into force on January 1, 2016, but the indexation of pensions in accordance with the new formula was never adopted; one-time decisions were always in effect. This will be the case in 2018. The procedure for calculating the pension coefficient (point) has not yet been approved, although such a requirement is established by law.

I take a formal position: the law has been written, but it is not being implemented. Either accept the method for calculating the pension point, or abandon the broken formula and propose a new one.

The same applies to the reform of early pensions. The special assessment of working conditions did not cover the majority of workplaces with harmful and difficult working conditions. The idea of ​​shifting responsibility for early pensions from the state to employers, formalized by law, was not realized.

There was another good idea: to evaluate the effectiveness of all benefits in the pension system and social insurance. Reduced tariffs are compensated by an interbudgetary transfer from the federal budget to the Pension Fund of Russia, the Compulsory Medical Insurance Fund and the Social Insurance Fund (FSS). There is an opinion that benefits work in some industries, but not in others. But their effectiveness has not yet been assessed.

And most importantly, it was not possible to solve the main strategic task: to achieve long-term financial sustainability of the pension system. The pension system cannot be developed in isolation, in isolation from the entire compulsory insurance system and the labor relations system.

– What options are there to balance the pension system? Is it possible to allocate a fixed part of the pension to the budget, as was the case in the 2000s?

I was an opponent of that system, and at one time I convinced Alexei Leonidovich [Kudrin] and Vladimir Vladimirovich [Putin] to abandon it. In the legislation in force at that time, the pension was divided into three parts: basic, insurance and funded, each of which was assigned its own source. The insurance premium was deducted from the unified social tax (UST), which was collected by the tax service, and insurance premiums - by the Pension Fund. The basic part was provided by UST receipts, the insurance and funded part was provided by insurance premiums. And then the unified social tax was reduced, and the basic pension turned out to be in deficit: this was unnoticeable, because the deficit was within the federal budget. The basic pension should have been no less than the average Russian subsistence level for a pensioner. Each time it was counted out - and the deficit within the federal budget grew.

It became obvious that it was no longer possible to maintain such a deficit within the budget and that the pension system needed to be balanced. We decided to make the pension unified and increase the insurance premium. As an alternative, they considered temporarily fixing some kind of federal tax so that part of it would go to replenish the pension system during a period of demographic failure. After all, the basic pension within the federal budget was already increasing the deficit, which means it was covered by other federal budget revenues, and not just the Unified Social Tax. They refused to fix the tax, insurance rates in certain areas - IT, agriculture, and other areas - were reduced, and an interbudgetary transfer had to be introduced. It seemed right then.

If we return to such a mechanism and index the basic pension not by a formula, but by the pensioner’s minimum subsistence level or by inflation, it should be called something. Social? But the social pension is assigned 5 years later than the insurance pension and is not paid during the period of work. Break up the pension - pay one this way, the other that way? Nobody answers these questions. And they are sensitive to the population.

Let's decide what decision we are ready for. After all, you still have to optimize something. Let's define in the economic development program: we are doing this as a priority and spending resources on this, but somewhere we will have to tighten up. And we’ll start explaining in advance, without scaring people by saying that tomorrow their retirement age will be raised or something will be taken away. There is a need to engage in public dialogue on such sensitive issues.

Okay, what should I change? Officials are discussing an accelerated increase in seniority instead of the retirement age. Will this help solve the problems of the pension system?

The design of the previous pension formula assumed mechanisms for stimulating later retirement without changing the generally established retirement age. But as we said earlier, the formula has now been changed.

In my opinion, increasing the length of the insurance period is not a way to long-term balance the Pension Fund's budget. This indicator should correspond to the life cycle of the majority of the Russian population (length of working age and working career).

We must not forget that an increase in the retirement age and length of service will entail a larger volume of pension rights being formed upon retirement, therefore the sources of new payments in the long term must be clearly defined.

- But some solution is necessary.

Social benefits and payments need systematization - so far there is no exhaustive list in this part. People may be eligible for both federal and regional benefits. The regions have “adapted”: if there is a duplicate federal benefit, they shift responsibility to the center. This is very common in drug supply. So in the regions, social support has been optimized.

A unified accounting system will make it possible to understand how many types of social support an individual person receives - no matter regional or federal - how much medicine he receives, how much he pays for housing and communal services, etc. Without knowing this, it is wrong to cancel or modernize benefits.

- How could expenses be redistributed?

– Now expenses are planned from the base - you need to have courage and abandon this principle, for example, in 2019, with the adoption of Federal Law 83, the term “state task” appeared in budget legislation - the formation of the volume of budget allocations based on determining the cost of public services (work) and the number of such services. The state task has replaced the budget estimate. At the same time, the state task does not include expenses for the purchase of equipment, major repairs and investments.

As a rule, the transition to government assignments, in terms of determining the cost of services, is carried out using the reverse counting method, from the already achieved level of appropriations, divided by the number of services. This led to different costs of services for identical activities and disruption of competition in the public sector.

In the structure of the state task, the largest volume of expenses falls on wages, therefore, as a rule, despite the existing distortions, when optimizing expenses, the state task is not subject to reduction, but the amount of funds for equipment and major repairs decreases, which ultimately leads to non-compliance with modern infrastructure requirements educational process, process of providing medical care. Obviously, this needs to be changed, evidence of this is the depreciation of fixed assets for 2016 in education - 47.9%, in healthcare and the provision of social services - 56%. The renewal rate is low and has been declining over the past three years. The share of investments in education decreased from 2.2% in 2007 to 1.4% in 2016, in healthcare - from 2.7% in 2006 to 1.2% in 2016.

Almost 5 years have passed since the regional healthcare modernization programs that ended in 2013. Statistics for 2016 show that 31% of medical organizations do not have running water, 35.5% do not have sewerage, 40.5% do not have central heating, and 10,900 buildings are rented. 33% of X-ray machines in Russian clinics have been operating for more than 10 years and need to be replaced, the same applies to 24.6% of ultrasound machines and 52.7% of laboratory diagnostic equipment. Today these are the powers of the regions. The compulsory medical insurance tariff covers current expenses - salaries, utilities, communications, transport, equipment not more than 100 thousand rubles, medicines. Everything that costs more than 100,000 rubles must be financed from the budget.

Until we establish the correct proportion and structure of expenses and interest businesses in investing in these areas, the quality of public services will not increase.

Elusive state-owned companies

In your conclusion to the budget, you indicated that the government overestimated it by 700 billion rubles. income from dividends of state-owned companies. The budget includes revenues based on the fact that state-owned companies will allocate 50% of profits to dividends. Why do the estimates of the Ministry of Finance and the Federal Property Management Agency differ and why is it not possible to achieve this from state-owned companies?

The budget is formed on the basis of current legislation, which has a rule - at least 25% of net profit is allocated for dividends. The requirement of 50% was an anti-crisis measure of fiscal consolidation, which the Ministry of Finance included in the Main Directions of Budget, Tax and Customs Tariff Policy for 2018-2020, which were approved by the government.

Of course, deductions in the form of dividends in the amount of 50% of the net profit of enterprises should be assessed positively for the budget, but we must not forget about the need for companies to develop. As practice has shown, on the basis of individual decisions of the Government, it was allowed to reduce the standard for transferring dividends, in 2016 - for 12 joint-stock companies, in 2017 - for 9.

It is necessary to define a new procedure establishing the range and criteria for changing the volume of dividends. For example, while a state-owned company is implementing a large investment project, it pays reduced dividends for the first two or three years, then the standard increases.

Maybe the Accounts Chamber should focus on auditing state-owned companies, rather than ministries? After all, both dividends and tariffs depend on them.

We annually include audits of our companies in our plan, but we cannot include everyone. This requires a very large human resource. A huge number of people need to be sent to check the same Gazprom, and my constant control is needed.

- Are there political obstacles?

There are no political obstacles to inspections of state-owned companies. We have inspections of state-owned companies, but not total, but in certain areas, primarily when it comes to the allocation of budget funds.

The salaries of managers of state-owned companies are very high - we are talking not only about management, but also about middle managers. And these companies declare that they do not have enough money for dividends, and sometimes ask for budget money.

Companies should limit the amount of compensation - either based on KPIs or a directive from the board of directors. Of course, we see that salaries are high. We invite relevant officials who are on the boards [of directors] of these companies - they themselves do not always see this. In some places we even managed to influence the situation through them. By the way, in a huge number of cases, hired auditors do not notice inflated salaries.

Escape from responsibility

Various concepts of economic development are being discussed - Kudrin, Oreshkin, Titov, [presidential aide Andrei] Belousov - but they will not develop a single one. When will the final document be discussed, and will there be one at all?

In any case, there should be such a document. After all, it will form the basis of the strategy of the president elected for a future term and the new government.

“But everyone seems to be running away from it.”

Probably because, along with good decisions, difficult decisions will have to be made, and the views on economic policy of the listed authors do not always coincide.

– Can a project approach change the work of the state apparatus?

The idea is right. The question is implementation - the state program was also a good idea, but it was so bureaucratized that it turned out to be impossible to implement. By the time you go through all the circles of hell, the financial year is over, amendments are made to the budget and everything starts all over again.

- To make unpopular decisions, do you need reform of the state apparatus or political will?

The state apparatus needs to be optimized - not only officials, but also institutions and extra-budgetary funds. Where there is excess and where there is not enough is already clear. Many are afraid of responsibility: for them, the first task is to enlist the support of a manager, instead of proposing solutions and being responsible for them.

My approach: first I try to solve the problem myself, and only then, when I understand that a higher level of will is needed, I go to management. And I solve problems not because I was assigned to do so, but because I see that I cannot put it off.

Tatiana Lomskaya, Elizaveta Bazanova, Margarita Papchenkova, Philip Sterkin

The interview was published in the Vedomosti newspaper on November 30, 2017

This year, Moscow is going to the international real estate exhibition MIPIM with the most representative delegation - together with the Mayor, three deputies. S. Sobyanin told Vedomosti about what the Russian capital will show to investors.

B. Lyauw and M. Glikin, Vedomosti

Power in Moscow has become open and understandable. S. Sobyanin tried to prove this thesis in an interview with Vedomosti, answering in detail all, including uncomfortable, questions - in particular, about why the authorities are pursuing such a tough policy towards motorists, holders of trays and tents, and private tenants. In his opinion, all this benefits Muscovites. In an interview with Vedomosti, he talks about the city economy and his intention to participate in the elections.

Vedomosti: A year and a half ago, giving an interview to Vedomosti, you spoke with enthusiasm about your plans and prospects. Now it seems that fatigue has accumulated and there is a certain disappointment. Is it so? What's your mood?

S. Sobyanin: As you can see, it's good. If a year and a half ago we talked about plans and prospects, today we can talk about their implementation. Remember when we talked about modernizing healthcare? Today we have almost finished updating all medical equipment in the city. We talked about education reform - it is also almost completed. The material base and salaries of teachers were seriously improved (in 2010, teachers earned an average of 39 thousand rubles, according to the results of 2012 - 57 thousand rubles per month). We discussed transport problems and the metro development program a lot. All this is now being implemented on a scale that Moscow has never seen before. Of course, on the one hand, this causes satisfaction. On the other hand, to get maximum effect, programs must be completed.

Vedomosti: In other words, are you satisfied with everything that is developing and how it is developing in the city?

S. Sobyanin: Yes, I am pleased that we managed to move forward on many problems that had not been dealt with in Moscow for years. There are, of course, simpler tasks: for example, in the improvement of the city, we have come more in two years than in the previous 10 years. But these are local objects and tasks that can be quickly solved. And there are tasks that require five or more years. If we are talking about the metro, the program will be implemented until 2020. Its implementation by local projects will, of course, have some effect, but will not solve the problem.

Vedomosti: Are you happy with the team too? Is everything in place or does someone need to be replaced?

S. Sobyanin: Maybe I would love to talk about this topic, but I won’t, so as not to offend my colleagues. Basically, they all cope with their responsibilities. They are all different, it is difficult to compare them. The main thing is that they can withstand both the pace that is set and the colossal load that has fallen on them. I encourage them as best I can, but I also don’t forget to ask them strictly.

Vedomosti: How do you encourage?

S. Sobyanin: Kind words.

Vedomosti: Can you withstand the psychological stress yourself?

S. Sobyanin: Unlike my young deputies, I have been in this shoes for more than a dozen years, so it’s a little easier for me - one might say, I’m tired of it. In fact, it’s a very serious psychological burden, but we can cope.

Vedomosti: Moscow held open competitions for the personnel reserve of the Moscow Government and for heads of departments. Mostly officials are coming. Why do you think this is not interesting, for example, to businessmen?

S. Sobyanin: I remember how I was criticized that there were too many businessmen in the Government. I am not afraid of this, if I see that a person is a professional and he is interested in doing this business, he will cope. It’s difficult for a businessman to plunge headlong into a new position, for example, the same head of the government. The population is supporting you from below, the Mayor is educating you from above, reprimanding you, or even firing you - it’s not an easy story. The salary is low, if he steals, he will go to jail. What should he do there? This must be a person who has already made a decision for himself that he chooses public service as his future destiny. But just trying, throwing your business on someone else’s shoulders is a very difficult decision. Among bureaucrats, it is usually career officials who move up the career ladder: they have chosen this path, they have been doing this all their lives and do not see any other path for themselves.

We have nowhere to retreat

Vedomosti: Are there any directions that you are dissatisfied with?

S. Sobyanin: We must develop all sectors and, regardless of priorities, move in all directions. That’s why we created 16 government programs that we work on. The main problem is infrastructure, primarily transport. Without its solution, other problems in the city will not be solved. It is hardly possible to create a comfortable city in which people commute 2.5 hours to work. But this problem is not only and not so much a Moscow one. More than 60% of all Russian cargo is transported through the Moscow transport hub. If we do not solve the problem of the Moscow transport hub, we will not as a whole solve the transport problems of the country, which, while increasing its economic potential, will face infrastructural limitations in the center of Russia. They say: why come here? Let's go around this territory. But it’s impossible to get around it! The infrastructure has been created over centuries. And rebuilding it will be much more difficult than helping it breathe again, making it more effective. For example, build the Central Ring Road, reconstruct the circular railway, build logistics centers, etc.

Vedomosti: From March 1, you restricted the entry of trucks onto the Moscow Ring Road. You say that it is impossible to travel around Moscow, where should they go? If they accumulate at the entrance and create a collapse, can you cancel your decision?

S. Sobyanin: We have nowhere to retreat - Moscow is behind us. And to prevent them from parking on the sides of the roads, the traffic police and Rosavtodor have the authority to put up prohibition signs, which they, in fact, have already done. There is no collapse there; there are fewer cars parking today. The parking space that we have additionally created is not yet in use. For example, there is free parking on Kaluzhskoye Highway, where there are cafes and toilets, and there are almost zero cars! Such a problem does not exist yet, and it cannot exist, since so far only 15% of the total traffic has refused to travel during the daytime. And to do this, you don’t need to park near Moscow at all, you just need to change the logistics of the movement, because they, as a rule, know the approximate time of entry into the Moscow zone.

Vedomosti: Will fines help?

S. Sobyanin: We are absolutely not satisfied with the number of trucks that obey our decisions, so we will increase administrative fines monthly and eventually up to 5 thousand rubles. Then this will be a significant fine. Why didn't we do this right away? Just to give them the opportunity to adapt, to bring to their consciousness that such a prohibition exists. Because no matter how much we talk about it, when they start asking drivers, many of them say: “What is this? This is the first time we’ve heard it!” I believe that now we will decide that from April 1 the fine will be 1 thousand rubles, then 2 thousand rubles, 3 thousand and 5 thousand rubles. There will definitely not be any increase in prices or shortages on the Moscow market, because we are talking about transit trucks, and not those that come here for unloading - this is a separate situation.

There is not a single metropolis in the world that allows trucks to roam freely as they please. Moreover, in most European countries - including Germany - trucks are generally prohibited from driving even on main roads on weekends. Everyone builds their business, realizing that it is impossible to combine freight traffic with passenger traffic; even first-class highways cannot cope with this task.

Vedomosti: The city is taking draconian measures against motorists: fines, narrowing parking spaces, dedicated lanes. How are these measures compensated?

S. Sobyanin: You will be surprised if I say that this is all being done for them, because there are so many cars in Moscow that the existing infrastructure cannot accommodate them. All world capitals are introducing restrictions, but they are primarily aimed at benefiting the motorists themselves. What's happening today? First they stop in the left lane, then in the right lane, then in the second row, then in the third. And then everyone stopped. There can be no anarchy on the roads. By the way, we are not reducing parking space: in two years we have created an additional 700 thousand parking spaces to the existing 1 million. We are simply saying that we must comply with the requirements of road signs. Then the number of cars actually parking will decrease. This solves two problems: the speed of movement on these streets increases and the motorist has a choice - either fines, paid parking, or public transport. But there is no goal of transferring everyone to public transport. If there are a maximum of 15% of these, the ride will become more comfortable.

Vedomosti: Don't you want to establish feedback with motorists? For example, on Shchelkovskoe Highway the road for tram tracks in the Rusakovka area was raised, as a result in one place there is only one lane for cars, that is, a guaranteed traffic jam even on Sunday.

S. Sobyanin: Consider that you were able to provide such a connection today. In fact, you can talk about all these problems on the Department of Transport portal. We also work with bloggers who have worked on this topic. By the way, at their suggestion, we implemented about a hundred local events that solved serious problems at low cost. Moreover, we went further: we ourselves began to analyze bottlenecks that could be improved with small measures. We collected more than 1 thousand, distributed them by year, identified priority ones and will implement several hundred of them this year.

The metro does not remain Cinderella

Vedomosti: Moscow is expanding highways that, for example on the Moscow Ring Road, run into a bottleneck. What's the point in doing this kind of work?

S. Sobyanin: Within the borders of Moscow, we not only formed all the programs, but also provided financing, are designing and already building. As for roads outside Moscow, the situation is more complicated, but for the first time in the history of our relations with the Moscow region and the Ministry of Transport, we were able to synchronize the reconstruction of our outbound highways with their continuation in the form of federal roads. After all, what was the problem always? Either they reconstruct faster than us, and Moscow does not move, or vice versa. Today, the terms of reconstruction work on 75% of all outbound highways either coincide or almost coincide with a difference of 2–3 years, which is acceptable for construction.

Vedomosti: What do you mean by 25%?

S. Sobyanin: Let's say, out of the dozen main outbound highways that we are reconstructing, seven are being reconstructed in a synchronized manner or are under the federal project of the Ministry of Transport. The same Yaroslavka. At one time, the Ministry of Transport, for its part, reconstructed it almost completely (I believe that it should be expanded at the entrance to Moscow, because there remains a bottleneck there), but Moscow did not. This is very important, because either we will lock them up, or they will lock them up in Moscow.

But there is a small “but” here: no matter what time frame we draw, any linear construction requires the seizure of land plots, especially for federal highways that approach the Moscow Ring Road. Somewhere in the field, there are probably no such problems. But when we enter Moscow, these necks are built up with shopping centers, gas stations, stalls, markets, and, of course, we need an accelerated procedure for the seizure of these lands for these territories. According to current legislation, this requires not one year, not two, but at least 3.5–4. Unfortunately, this is the established practice.

Vedomosti: When will there be intercepting parking lots at the entrance to Moscow, not far from major highways, where you can leave your car? For example, it is planned near the Izmailovskaya metro station, but you still need to get there, and if several thousand cars go in this direction, then everything will stop. Why not make a parking lot at the entrance to the city and run shuttles from there to the metro?

S. Sobyanin: We cannot build parking lots or transport hubs on the territory of the Moscow region. We have an understanding with the Moscow Region Government that interchange transport hubs will be created on their territory. In our Moscow program we are talking about existing transfer points from public transport (buses) to the railway, to suburban services and to the metro. There are more than 200 of them in Moscow. Thus, we are not talking about creating new ones, but about arranging existing transfers. If you come to such a “transport” hub today, you will most likely see a pile of stalls, dirt, and illegal cab drivers. At the first stage, we want to organize this space, make normal traffic logistics, and ensure control over those who arrive and who park. We have taken on a gigantic task - this year to improve approximately 180 hubs, and at the next stage - to make transport hubs fully operational.

Vedomosti: Some of them provide for the construction of 200 thousand square meters. m of real estate. For what? After all, they will attract flows.

S. Sobyanin: You are asking the right question. The existing exits from metro stations and transport hubs have not been developed in any way - there is an exit from the metro, a railway station, buses arrive. And around them there are a huge number of shopping centers and markets. What happens? A person transfers from one type of transport to another in absolutely uncomfortable conditions. It's done differently all over the world. A transport interchange hub is being created, which first of all takes into account the needs of passengers when transferring: where the buses call, how the transfer to the metro or commuter train proceeds. And then the retail space is harmoniously completed. Firstly, this will attract investment for the development of transport hubs, because no budget money will be enough to solve this problem. But in this way, comfortable conditions are created at this mini-station in order to drink coffee and purchase some minimally necessary goods. In Seoul, for example, the metro is financed from tariffs by only 45 percent, and 55% by renting out premises. But in Moscow the situation is abnormal: we give the most profitable territories to businessmen, and the metro remains Cinderella along with its passengers.

Vedomosti: The metro's capacity has long been exceeded. It is impossible to run trains more often. The goals that you have set will be realized by 2021. How will you solve the problem all this time? It seems that people will soon be pushed into train cars, like in Japan.

S. Sobyanin: To do this, we are creating new lines - Solntsevskaya, Kozhukhovskaya, and other new radii. And most importantly, we are starting to build the Third Interchange Circuit, which will allow people to transfer to other lines without reaching the very center. Moreover, we have begun the reconstruction of the so-called Small Ring of the Railway (SCR), which will become another additional interchange circuit. That is, in addition to one Circle Line, we will have two more large rings that will distribute these flows more evenly. The Moscow Ring Railway will be reconstructed by 2015. After the implementation of this program, we expect a decrease in the metro load by 10–15%, even taking into account the growth in the number of passengers.

And the last thing: our metro lines are not always and not so much overloaded as the stations, especially the terminal ones. Therefore, extending the lines relieves congestion at the previous station, ensures accessibility of the metro for residents, and they do not travel for hours across the Moscow Ring Road on buses. And the line itself is loaded more evenly. It is very important.

There has never been much housing built in Moscow

Vedomosti: This year the City Hall is going to the MIPIM real estate exhibition with a huge delegation. What are you bringing?

S. Sobyanin: We believe that Moscow has something to show. We have decided on the areas of investment that Moscow needs, we understand in which sectors to attract these investments, we already have ready-made projects. The investment climate depends not only on builders, but also on the land and property complex, economic, etc. We want to present Moscow’s new investment policy.

Vedomosti: Explain.

S. Sobyanin: We have abandoned projects that are unprofitable for the city, for Muscovites, and propose to do, first of all, what will benefit the city.

Vedomosti: What is the interest in this for investors?

S. Sobyanin: If we do not allow them to build where they want, and with the share of the margin that they would earn in doing so, this does not mean that Moscow has become uninteresting for investors. There are more than enough objects for investment: shopping centers, housing, and offices. Only they will play by our rules, but these rules are clear and will benefit the development of the city. This, in fact, is what the new investment policy consists of. Plus, we try to prepare large turnkey projects. This is the Nagatinskaya Poyma, where we propose to build a theme park. The project will have technical specifications, pre-design decisions, urban planning documentation, and the investor will no longer have to run through approval authorities. The same applies to the ZiL site, where we clearly define the rules and the scope of construction. We are in favor of preparing documentation that is as clear as possible for investors. The number of land plots put up for auction with ready-made urban planning solutions is growing from year to year. If in previous years there were only a few, last year - dozens, then this year - already more than a hundred.

Vedomosti: Land rents for some developers have increased tenfold. Aren't you afraid of scaring them away?

S. Sobyanin: Not a land rental rate, but a construction bonus. Previously, in Moscow there were so-called investment contracts, under which the city received a share. Investment contracts are no longer concluded, but there must be a mechanism for the city to receive income from new construction. If we take, for example, the construction of 1 sq. m of housing, then it costs the investor from 30 thousand to 100 thousand rubles. And the city for the same 1 sq. m must spend 12 thousand rubles on the construction of kindergartens and schools, 12 thousand rubles on transport infrastructure, and the same amount on engineering. In fact, we are subsidizing developers. Therefore, we adopted a resolution that investors must pay part of the market value of land to the budget. Now we are moving to calculation based on cadastral value. It is more understandable, and the investor already knows in advance how much he must pay to the city when implementing a particular project: depending on the volume of construction, the volume of additional space that he will receive. Accordingly, you can easily calculate and decide whether this project is worth pursuing at all.

Vedomosti: You head the State Land Committee, which also approves new projects. How has the composition of investors changed - have there been more or fewer of them?

S. Sobyanin: The total volume of private investment in the city in 2012 increased by 25%. This is a very big dynamic. Taking into account the fact that we terminated contracts for 10 million sq. m, we were predicted that now everything would collapse, housing and commercial real estate would stop being built, but in reality, by all indicators, we are building more than in previous years! Another question is that we have set priorities for ourselves, where this property is needed, what quality, what direction. We are trying to give fewer permits for the construction of offices and the creation of jobs in the city center, and more for housing, hotels, and apartments, in order to balance the number of jobs and housing. On the outskirts, on the contrary, we are trying to put pressure on the investor so that he creates more jobs, because there is a huge amount of housing and a complete lack of jobs. As for new territories, we are pursuing a policy so that more jobs are built than housing.

Vedomosti: What if the move of federal officials does not take place? Are city structures ready to move?

S. Sobyanin: It is quite possible that some will move. But in fact, this is not a problem for this territory; we can easily cover this problem by creating commercial jobs. Offices with tens of thousands of jobs are being built there.

Vedomosti: Does the city leadership have an understanding of what to do with housing construction? In Moscow there are only 19 square meters per person. m. At the same time, you say that there is no need to rebuild Moscow.

S. Sobyanin: This is impossible! It's not that it's not necessary - it's impossible.

Vedomosti: Why? Perhaps as before, for example.

S. Sobyanin: No, It is Immpossible. This will lead to such a difficult environment that Muscovites will not be happy. When we want to compact something, we meet the toughest opposition from residents! But I must say that there has never been much housing built in Moscow. It is a myth. If you take the past decade, then on average about 3 million square meters were built in Moscow. m per year. Today we are already building 2.5 million. Taking into account new territories, I think we will easily reach the figure of 3 million. What is most paradoxical, despite the fact that over the past decades 30–50 million square meters have been built. m, the housing supply did not increase, but decreased. True, there are also statistical tricks here. Many people buy housing in the Moscow region, leaving their Moscow registration. The result is a formal bias towards Moscow. Please note that housing is being built in the Moscow region twice as much as in Moscow. There is less construction going on here, but the number of residents is growing. This is unnatural!

Vedomosti: You raised the topic of resistance from residents... Muscovites don’t always even have time to find out about public hearings - are they deliberately held quietly?

S. Sobyanin: Large projects always attract attention, there is heated discussion in the media, political parties and public organizations are involved, so there is usually enough information on them. And we understand what difficulties we face, and what problems the population has with this. We try to find a compromise solution on every issue. As for small objects - up to 1500 sq. m, - we gave them to the local level, to deputies of local governments. Without their consent, these facilities will not be built in Moscow.

Vedomosti: Is there a common position on the construction of temples? On the one hand, people need religious institutions, on the other, everything has been rebuilt.

S. Sobyanin: That is why we have delegated these issues to deputies at the district level; they are elected by the people who live in this area, they answer to them and, through discussions, will ultimately come to a certain decision. Of course, it is impossible to satisfy everyone 100%, but it is quite possible to identify and take into account the opinion of the majority.

Vedomosti: A big resonance arises when construction begins in parks.

S. Sobyanin: We do not build anything in parks that would worsen the environment. At most, these are small temples, and then at the request of the residents. Small sports facilities, and they are built without cutting down green spaces, because today our specially protected natural areas are, excuse me, in many ways just garbage heaps or wastelands. It’s not like they are planted with first-class trees... The same Mnevniks: look what’s happening there - it’s a nightmare! Last year we removed tens of thousands of tons of garbage from there. This looks very little like a specially protected natural area.

Vedomosti: That is, Muscovites can rest assured that if there is a park, it will remain?

S. Sobyanin: Absolutely! We have invested so much money in the development of parks in Moscow that we have not invested in the last decade. The colossal volume: landscaping, cleaning ponds, rivers, planting trees and shrubs - measured in tens of thousands. How can we then drive a bulldozer? Moreover, we are starting to help even those parks that are not within our area of ​​responsibility. The same “Losiny Ostrov” is a federal national park, nevertheless, we entered into an agreement with them, cleaned it, held clean-up days there, and starting this year we begin to pay them subsidies so that they can clean and maintain it better. In the same “Sokolniki” local residents came up to me and said: “Oh, don’t do it, under no circumstances! Look, here we have a dance floor - you will save it, but you won’t cut down the trees here.” Now there is no such concern; we have included all the active part of the residents in the park development council. I must say that the number of Muscovites visiting parks has doubled over the past two years. This means that they have become places of attraction.

We did not seek to destroy the stalls

Vedomosti: In 2010, the City Hall began a campaign against stalls and tents. But this is a loss of jobs.

S. Sobyanin: We never sought to destroy all the stalls in the city. We talked about the fact that let's leave that part of the network that is necessary for residents. We approved an industry-wide scheme for placing stalls in each district and agreed with deputies and the public. The residents themselves said: let these stalls work, but shawarma and Chinese consumer goods are not needed. As they said, so we did.

It should be borne in mind that these retail outlets employ a maximum of 10–15% of Muscovites, all the rest are nonresidents. Therefore, the question is also what kind of labor we attract here and why. And one more important factor: if street trading goes away, other, more civilized formats will certainly arise - a holy place is never empty.

Vedomosti: In St. Petersburg, where things have always been very expensive, many hotels have already appeared where you can rent a small room for $50–60. Why is there still a shortage in Moscow?

S. Sobyanin: We try to help investors who say they want to build a 3-star, inexpensive hotel. We issue urban planning documentation and building permits as a priority. Every year 2 thousand numbers are introduced in Moscow. I think their number will increase, based on the volume that we see today both in terms of permits and investor interest. For the first time in Moscow, an industry-wide scheme for the construction of hotels has been approved; we now know what class of hotel in which district of Moscow needs to be built.

Plus, a number of investments are being attracted today into the social sphere and transport infrastructure - these are concession agreements for the construction of kindergartens and hospitals; These are life cycle contracts for the production and delivery of the subway cars that we develop. And in the near future we will come out with this competition.

Vedomosti: Tell us more about this competition.

S. Sobyanin: If today we are forced to buy cars from a single contractor - Transmashholding, then this will be an international competition in which almost all major car manufacturers will be able to participate. But at the same time, we are not just buying cars, but, in fact, we are buying a service for the full life cycle. They supply the cars, and we pay them for 30 years. The supplier is obliged to release cars onto the line in accordance with our operating requirements and maintain the train in proper condition. Such contracts allow us to minimize one-time costs and stretch them over decades. It seems to me that these are interesting public-private partnership projects.

Vedomosti: What amount will be allocated for the renewal of rolling stock?

S. Sobyanin: About 200 billion rubles, if you simply purchase them at once. If through life cycle contracts, then it will decompose over about 30 years.

Vedomosti: What prevented you from attracting foreign companies to the production of cars in the past?

S. Sobyanin: I don't know, I can't answer this question. In general, this question periodically torments me, what prevented Moscow from creating large-scale programs for the construction of the metro, the reconstruction of roads, and commuter trains. These are priority tasks for the development of the city, but for some reason they have been relegated to the tenth plan, gone into constant debates with the federal government, the Ministry of Finance, although Moscow has always had the resources to at least begin to implement them: create project documentation, reserve land plots , prepare them.

I don’t care whether he’s an oppositionist or not

Vedomosti: In 2014, the Moscow City Duma is elected, in 2015 - the Mayor of Moscow. Does it make sense to combine elections to save money, as is often done in other regions? Is it worth holding early mayoral elections?

S. Sobyanin: I think that this saving is unlikely to be practical. Muscovites must calmly make their choice regarding the composition of the Moscow City Duma and also calmly choose a Mayor separately from the Duma elections. If we combine all this, then I think it will be such a mess that it will be difficult to figure out who to vote for and on what occasion. These are two big campaigns: the city is huge, there are a large number of public and political organizations... Therefore, I think, in order not to create unnecessary problems and not crumple these election campaigns, they should be separated and conducted separately. But that's my opinion.

Vedomosti: Under Mayor Yuri Luzhkov there was the concept of “Luzhkov’s list.” As a rule, those candidates for Moscow City Duma deputies whom he included in this list, especially single-mandate candidates, got through without difficulty, because...

S. Sobyanin:...because it was determined that they must pass.

Vedomosti: Will there be a Sobyanin list?

S. Sobyanin: I haven’t thought about it yet, but it’s unlikely. Muscovites must decide for themselves who to vote for. As for party lists, we'll see. The time will come - we will decide.

Vedomosti: They will certainly consult with you - at least as with one of the leaders of United Russia. Do you think that the Moscow parliament should be rejuvenated? Seven out of 35 deputies have been sitting in it for 20 years, many for 15. What would you advise in this regard?

S. Sobyanin: Let's live until the election campaign. Are you suggesting that I name the deputies by name? I think this is premature and even impossible. As for experience, experience must always be combined with youth, there must be parity of both in order for there to be some kind of dynamics of development.

Vedomosti: But do you need an update?

S. Sobyanin: I think, no matter what I draw there, there will definitely be an update, this was shown by the elections of local government deputies: their composition has been significantly updated, many opposition deputies and young people who have never been involved in parliamentary activities have passed. Now they have gotten the hang of it, they want to run for deputies in the Moscow City Duma, well, thank God!

Vedomosti: Do you see any opportunity for yourself, if called, to return to the federal government?

S. Sobyanin: This is how a person who has not worked there can argue - it is hard and often thankless work. It is not easier to work as Mayor, but at least you are responsible for what you do and see the results. This brings greater moral satisfaction, so I don’t make any such plans.

Vedomosti: About the practice of coordinating street actions... We see how painfully it is to coordinate a route with the opposition, they do not make concessions to it, they are not allowed into the center. And actions of pro-government forces on central streets and squares are coordinated quickly and quietly. Is this fair?

S. Sobyanin: Well, take the last procession. We gave the opposition a route along the Boulevard Ring from Pushkinskoye to Sakharov. At the same time, another action was announced, in defense of children, we gave it a route to Novopushkinskoye, also along the Boulevard Ring. That is, both of them went through almost the same ring. Moreover, we proposed the route taken by the protesters in defense of children for the last opposition rally, but they rejected it. Therefore, I would not say that we are making any fundamental difference. But there is another aspect. Law enforcement agencies always take into account the risks when conducting a particular event: security issues; whether the organizers of the rally themselves can or cannot ensure security; transport issues; transport load on the city. You know very well that the opposition, which is now holding rallies or marches in the center, did not even dream of these routes four years ago; I think we have come very far in this regard.

Vedomosti: But do they have a chance to someday get to Okhotny Ryad, as V. Putin’s supporters did a year ago?

S. Sobyanin: Communist Party rallies were held on Okhotny Ryad, LDPR rallies were held nearby. You also need to have some kind of history of relations, a history of whether certain organizers can or cannot ensure security.

Vedomosti: Credit history, you might say.

S. Sobyanin: Trust, yes. Anything can happen, but we must keep in mind that a number of objects, especially in the city center, are generally approved not by us, but by the Federal Security Service, because they are in close proximity to federal government bodies.

Vedomosti: If someone from the opposition performs well in the Moscow City Duma and Mayor elections, do you rule out the possibility that you could invite someone to the Government?

S. Sobyanin: I do not consider for myself a system in which a person has such and such political views, and that is why I have to hire him. I don’t care at all whether he is an oppositionist or not... Is he capable of working, will he add something to our work or not? This is the criterion. And what party he belongs to or what he thinks in terms of his political career is the least of my interests.

There are 16 government programs in Moscow. Only one has not been adopted - “On environmental protection”. S. Sobyanin explains that the city needs to develop this program taking into account the territories annexed to Moscow - “this is a colossal amount of green spaces, green areas, rivers.” At the same time, the city is implementing all the environmental measures that were included in the draft of this program, says the Mayor. This is a restriction on trade in fuels of class below Euro-4, replacement of the bus fleet taking into account environmental requirements, reconstruction of the Moscow Oil Refinery, which was the main polluter, and closure of the Pechatniki plant. Plus, the drains are processed using new technologies that provide better ecology for the Moscow River.

The authorities’ desire to live one day at a time and the inability to plan for the future became one of the main reasons for the crisis, says Minister of Economic Development Alexey Ulyukaev
Since June, when we conducted our previous interview with Alexey Ulyukaev, the situation in the economy has changed dramatically under the influence of sectoral sanctions, counter-sanctions, lower oil prices, and the fall of the ruble. We began the meeting with an attempt to list everything that had rapidly changed, but the minister interrupted, nodding: “If we meet again in six months, everything will be different again.” There was no need to wait: in an hour and a half on Monday, while we were interviewing, the ruble to dollar exchange rate fell by 1.6%, breaking through the 60 ruble/$ mark. By Tuesday night, part of the interview was already out of date. We sent a question asking for comment on the Central Bank's increase in the key rate from 10.5 to 17%. But Tuesday also turned out to be “black”: during these two days, the ruble exchange rate against the dollar jumped between 58.2 and 80.1 rubles, against the euro - between 72.3 and 100.7 rubles, exchange rate fluctuations reached almost 40%. Depositors became worried, banks suspended issuing loans, and in the evening the government gathered to discuss a joint anti-crisis plan - the day before we had just asked Ulyukaev why there was no such plan. After all, the crisis did not arise on this Monday.
- How would you characterize the situation in the economy?
- Perhaps “crisis” is the right word. It is correct in that it does not have a clear definition: stagnation and recession have it, but crisis does not. We now have a combination of three crises. The first crisis is structural: the structure of the economy is such that it reproduces costs on an expanded scale. This is an economy of constantly growing costs: be it the tariffs of natural monopolies, be it the ratio of wages to labor productivity, be it regulatory, transaction costs, be it the costs of funding in the credit market. All costs are constantly growing, and their growth is many times greater than the growth of the economy. The second crisis is part of the normal business cycle, which is associated with demand constraints - both internal and external. And the third is a geopolitical crisis associated with the mechanism of sanctions, counter-sanctions, etc. Their combination at one time in one place produces the negative effects that we are discussing.
- Is this a “perfect storm” or did it not happen by chance?
“We must have found ourselves in the perfect storm—and it’s probably not a coincidence.” Because in a sense, we ourselves prepared this storm. In terms of the structural crisis, this is the result of an under-reformed economy and everything that we have not done. They did not reduce macroeconomic costs - and these are the costs of both the pension system and the social sphere, which now means additional obligations for the social insurance fund and health insurance. Our actions this year to abolish the [salary contributions] threshold in the Compulsory Medical Insurance Fund is actually an additional tax on business, and it is due to the fact that the fund has a deficit, and this is the result of under-reform. The same applies to tariffs of natural monopolies and, most importantly, regulatory pressure. EY research shows that 35% of the costs of Russian enterprises are transaction costs and regulatory fees. This is what we did with our own hands. It’s like Márquez’s “Chronicle of a Declared Death” - a chronicle of a declared crisis: every time we made some movements, we prepared this crisis. The fact that three crises came together is an accident, but the fact that the base was prepared is a pattern.
- What are the next options? And sanctions, and recession or stagnation - for how long?
- I said back in 2009 that what is happening in the global economy is a transition to a new normal, that there will no longer be high growth rates - neither global nor Russian. Look how the forecasts change: all the time, analysts expect that the world economy will grow more vigorously, then quarter after quarter they lower their forecasts, and next year they again expect vigorous growth and again lower their forecasts. The idea of ​​a new normal will not take root; everyone is waiting for some kind of rebound. There will be no bounces. The growth rate of the global economy will be significantly lower than before. And, accordingly, the growth rate of the Russian economy will also never be the same - I’m talking about a level when there is no negative gap between potential and actual output. From my point of view, this is an increase of approximately 2.5-3%. That is, if there were no sanctions, falling oil prices and if we had not done anything stupid, economic growth would have been 2.5-3%. This new normal is here to stay, for my generation - forever. I won't see another normal. Maybe you'll see.
- But now even 3% looks unrealistic.
- There are other components. The sanctions regime is the next matrix that we are imposing: it seems that this will also last for a very long time. I was a bad forecaster when I thought that sanctions would not be introduced or that they would be introduced for a short time. After the US Congress passed the bill (“Ukrainian Freedom Support Act,” which includes additional sanctions against Gazprom and Rosoboronexport. - Vedomosti), it will be like with the Jackson-Vanik amendment: no longer Jackson, nor Vanik, but for 40 years the story continued. Once an American law is passed, it is then very difficult to change it - this seems to take decades. The problem may be material, it may be intangible - just a threat, but it will be with us for a very long time.
But the third component - economic policy - it, of course, can be variable, it is a moving variable. The other two are constants.
- Will sanctions increase their impact on the economy or will it adapt?
- The component associated with financial sanctions, with banks, will weaken. It is very important for us to get through 2014-2015. from the point of view of refinancing company debts, further adaptation occurs due to the fact that the weakening of the currency changes the state of the current account. If we overcome all the confusion, which is largely associated with our careless actions in the monetary and financial sphere, then a sufficiently large positive balance of the current account will allow us to calmly fund the refinancing of our companies, starting in 2016. But by then the problem [will begin to affect] related to the technological component of the sanctions: a lot of things related to sanctions on the technology of modern oil and gas exploration, oil and gas production, today are not in effect at all, and next year, probably, too, and starting from 2016 we will have problems. The financial part [of the impact of sanctions] will weaken, and the technological part will strengthen, and it is difficult for me to say what the balance of these mutually contradictory trends will be, but one way or another it will be noticeable.
- It is clear that the best thing is for the sanctions to be lifted, but this is not a question for the Ministry of Economic Development...
- Agree.
- And there is no textbook on how to develop the economy under sanctions; you have to react ad hoc - spontaneously. Nevertheless, the Ministry of Finance has a sequestration plan, and the Central Bank is also trying to plan something. Does the Ministry of Economic Development - regarding the “moving variable” - have an anti-crisis plan? We are talking about economics, and you are in charge of economics.
- You are probably talking about plans in quotation marks - conditional plans. Because sequestering the budget by 10% is not a plan.
- Yes, a reaction to what is happening.
- That's exactly the reaction. The position can be reactive or it can be proactive. Any reactive position is doomed to failure, philosophically speaking. How much is the course today?
- 58 rubles/$ was on Friday (the interview was conducted on Monday. - Vedomosti).
- (Answer given on Monday) It’s been a long time since we passed. The Central Bank is doing different things; they raised the rate by 100 basis points on Thursday. Why do this? To show that the Central Bank still exists? This is a meaningless action. We are trailing behind events.
- On Tuesday night, the Central Bank raised the rate to 17%...
- (Answer given on Tuesday) [Increasing the key rate to 17%] is the right, although difficult, decision. But it does not live alone. It must be supplemented by measures to overcome imbalances in the domestic foreign exchange market.
Meaningful action is action for which someone may pay, but it will change the situation. We must change the situation on the chessboard, otherwise we will only move in a downward spiral, repeating and repeating how the pieces stood before. There are a lot of plans of this kind; they are all reactive plans. We still haven't had a serious plan that would change the device. Although we have many plans related to import substitution and priority projects - and this is all useful work, but this is a tactic, a reaction. We need a strategic plan.
- Why isn’t he there? No understanding of what is happening?
- You said correctly that we are reacting ad hoc: the situation is so difficult to predict that we cannot be prepared for its changes in the future. So what can we have in 2015 with external factors? It is very likely that sanctions will become stricter. It is very likely that the oil market situation will deteriorate even further. Something else might happen. How to behave - write another stress scenario in addition to [oil price] $60 [per barrel]? Let's do it for $40, for $20, for $10.
- Probably, such scripts are written to understand what to do?
- Stress test, first of all, to understand the strength of the structure: whether we can withstand it or not. And secondly, yes, [to understand] what we can do. So once again: it seems to me that we should be proactive. For example, in a situation where there are serious budget problems, a reactive position is to reduce the limits of budget obligations, and a proactive position is, for example, to cut taxes.
“Then there will be even less income.”
- Yes. Today - less. But today's risks result in a reduction in tomorrow's risks, and refusing risks today may mean increasing them tomorrow. Unfortunately, this comparison of today and tomorrow does not work well for us.
- Can a promise not to raise taxes be considered an example of a strategic decision?
- Yes, we can count it, - of course, if we actually fulfill it. Do you think business believes us?
- No.
- Because he knows that we are looking for some tricks. For example, they said that there would be no sales tax, but instead they introduced municipal fees, which are even more harmful. The cure turned out to be worse than the disease. Well, then they stung, making the medicine not so harmful, but nevertheless, the spoons were found, but the sediment remained. The mistrust remains. Moreover, the president said - not only tax rates, but tax conditions [should not change], that is, both new types of taxes and new types of administration should fall under this. But business thinks: they will come up with something like that anyway. For example, what about the threshold value [of contributions to] the Federal Compulsory Medical Insurance Fund: have we not changed the fundamental conditions or have we changed how to calculate this?
- Of course, they changed it.
- Here you go.
- What to do to regain trust? For example, in a situation with municipal taxes, what would be correct?
- In order to restore confidence in general in our readiness and ability to meet our obligations, it would be correct to say that we understand that, although the fees were introduced before the moratorium [on the increase in the tax burden] was declared, it would still be more correct to to freeze. That is, leave them as a regulatory framework, but not apply it for the same four years.
- Does freezing mean introducing it in cities of federal significance, as is supposed, and not extending it to other regions or not introducing it anywhere at all?
- This is negotiable. But the stronger the decision, the greater the trust. If we say that we have made a decision in principle, but are ready to postpone its implementation until the deadline indicated in the message, there would probably be more trust.
- Your latest version of the forecast caused discontent in the Kremlin; [presidential aide Andrei] Belousov spoke critically about the predicted decline in real incomes of the population.
- So this is pure arithmetic: if your average annual inflation is 10%, and you have included [in the budget] indexation according to the level of past inflation, of course there will be a decline. What did he say - “a set of numbers”? I don’t have another set of numbers for you, as long as the adopted laws contain such a set of letters.
- Perhaps the criticism is caused by the fact that there was no decline in income even in 2009 and their fall may somewhat erode the electoral base of support for the authorities?
- Perhaps, but this is not a question of forecasting, but of politics. The forecast is a mirror: I look in the mirror and I don’t like myself, you can break the mirror, but you can correct me, right? If we see that a really serious social problem is arising, then we must try to react to it. Maybe we should try to do something about inflation, or finally introduce targeted social support, or do something else.
- Do you expect that social protests will be added to economic turmoil?
- Honestly, I don’t expect it. During the last crisis there were no big [social] problems. And 2015 does not cause much concern. Unemployment is practically not growing, budget obligations are being met. Inflation is a major problem, but not too severe yet.
- During the last crisis, the Ministry of Economic Development put together anti-crisis plans, but now, it seems, the center of decisions has shifted to the Central Bank and partly the Ministry of Finance; the president has generally instructed ASI to develop the national technological initiative. It seems that the role of the ministry is becoming less important. What's happening? Or does it just seem that way?
- Partly it seems, partly it happens. During the last crisis, I worked at the Central Bank, and it seems to me that at that time the Central Bank mainly came up with and proposed measures, but this may be subjective. But what you said is true.
You know, there are simple things. For example, creating reserves: I have 100 rubles. - if I spend them, what will I be left with? This is simple, understandable logic. There is another simple logic: you can draw some technological maps - there are no risks, but suddenly it will help. But if there are any risks... After all, we propose various risky exercises: for example, additional expenses on infrastructure projects are already a risk. Reducing regulatory pressure on business is also a risk: let’s reduce regulation of small businesses, what if they do something to poison people? And, apparently, I do not have the strength to convince my colleagues that today’s risk turns into tomorrow’s improvement of the situation and, conversely, refusing today’s risk means double the risks tomorrow.
- How do you, a central banker with many years of experience, evaluate what you did with Rosneft?
- No comments.
- What if this practice of actually emission financing becomes permanent? There are other companies that also have debts.
- It is unlikely that such a practice will be universal. On the other hand - of course, if you declare that you will reduce the provision of liquidity to banks in order to stabilize the situation on the domestic foreign exchange market and at the same time take action that very seriously increases this liquidity - then, apparently, you will not achieve what you stated in your purposes.
- Does the scale of the past devaluation help some sectors?
- Of course, they help in some way. Let's take gas production: Gazprom's share of imported components and technologies is 15%, and the share of export foreign currency supplies is 70%. That is, for the company as a whole this means an increase in EBITDA and an increase in return on capital. And so it is for almost all mining companies; their dependence on imports is less than 20%. In mechanical engineering - for 40%, in some segments even more, and their sales, on the contrary, largely come from the domestic market.
- But this slows down the process of transition to growth of at least 3%, which requires technological updating?
- Certainly.
- What to do?
- It would be nice to achieve stability in the foreign exchange market.
- Have we chosen the full potential of the ruble weakening or is there no limit to it?
- Of course not. After all, there is also an objective component associated with the price of oil. Market participants simply do this: they multiply the exchange rate by the price of a barrel of oil, and if we get less than 3600-3700, then it means that the exchange rate has not weakened enough, and it is logical to assume an even greater weakening.
- Does the Ministry of Finance regulate this relationship?
- No, market participants themselves, keeping an eye on these general conditions. Another factor is the debt repayment and service schedule. But after a period of great turbulence there should always come a period when the market has found a certain course that suits it, which is clear to both sellers and buyers, when they will be able to predict the future environment and they will not need to make sudden movements.
- 100 rubles/$ we'll see?
- If we play sports and eat right, of course, we will see - because we will live a long time. (Laughs.)
- Do you support the idea of ​​agreeing with exporters on a schedule for the sale of foreign currency earnings so that they do not hold back on it?
- I am not against us agreeing. That is, they would explain, tell the exporter about their considerations, listen to his explanations. We are only talking about coordinating the sales schedule by day: the situation on Thursday from the situation on Tuesday may be very different, the Central Bank may come out with some kind of intervention, this has already happened. It is very difficult to predict the exchange rate in a day-to-day basis; the exporter may lose a little by holding the currency. But in general, any attempts to put pressure on the exporter will lead to the opposite result. If you say that vodka will be banned tomorrow, they will drink it all today.
- When do we have the opportunity to return to our new normal, to 3% growth?
- Based on the forecast, in 2017
- What will happen in these two years, what will change?
- Firstly, the markets will find a natural equilibrium state, including the price of oil. You know, if oil fell from a peak of $115 to $85-90, one could assume that this would last for a very long time, that this was part of a long-term trend, and if it fell from $115 to $60, with a high degree of probability the price would rebound. Any sharp decline is the probability of a subsequent sharp increase. And vice versa. Perhaps soon we will see completely different price parameters, and after this, exchange rates. This will be very beneficial for the economy and for household budgets, which is more important. Secondly, there is a set of measures that improve conditions for business: a moratorium on worsening tax conditions, limiting inspections, project financing - all this should work.
Thirdly, a strong devaluation means a reduction in costs for companies: in 2015 we will see that the share of wages in GDP has decreased, and the share of company profits has increased. Thus, today we are breaking that very cycle of increasing costs - not because we are so smart, it just happened that way. This means that, other things being equal, companies have a basis for increasing investment, unless, of course, we prevent this through our actions in economic policy.
- So the main risk is the actions of the authorities?
- In a sense, yes.
- In the summer you proposed stimulating the economy: softening the budget rule, directing 100% of the National Welfare Fund to investment projects. Do you hold the same point of view now?
- Exactly the same. Regarding the budget rule, we agreed that it must be respected. It turns out that it is observed in one direction: when there is a windfall in revenue due to high oil prices, they must be accumulated in reserve funds. But when the situation changes, oil prices fall - we say that we will not spend additional funds because we are afraid of additional risks. This results in a one-sided design.
As for the National Welfare Fund, in my opinion, this is a form of existence of national assets. You have oil in the ground, you can leave it there for your children and grandchildren - this is the first strategy. There is a second one: extract it and transform it into liquid form, place it in liquid instruments. Of course, both the first and second strategies have risks. By the time you decide to extract this oil, it may no longer be worth anything, since they may invent something else. And liquid assets - will they really remain liquid and reliable? You don't know this. The third option is to invest to achieve strategic goals. I argue that our strategic goals are very dependent on what kind of infrastructure we create. Road construction, railway, port, telecommunications - whether we will have opportunities for development depends on this.
- But so far we are seeing large requests from the oil and gas sector. Is it possible to invest in this sector of the National Welfare Fund or does it contradict the idea of ​​investing for strategic purposes?
- The regulatory framework does not say anything directly about this, but, firstly, these should be infrastructure projects, and secondly, logically, investments from the National Welfare Fund should be made where and when private business is not ready for this. It seems that oil and gas is a sector where investors are already ready to invest. But there is a third point: our large oil and gas companies are quite diversified, they have projects in areas that are not directly related to oil and gas production, only indirectly. Such projects can also be classified as infrastructure.
- Can oil refining be classified as infrastructure? In its application, Rosneft is asking for money for all nine of its refineries.
- I think no, this is a competitive business. But, probably, under certain circumstances, funds from the National Welfare Fund can also be used for oil refining. Here again the question is how we feel about the funds of the National Welfare Fund. The more commercial the project, the higher its liquidity, the greater the commercial component of the National Welfare Fund - greater safety and higher profitability. And if our goal is to increase the fund, then go ahead and invest in refineries. But if we want to create conditions for other businesses, not just state-owned ones, then oil production and oil refining do not really fit into such a paradigm. I prefer the second approach. The funds of the National Welfare Fund are intended to help private business, and not to replace it. The Ministry of Economic Development has now received applications for only four projects. Including the Komsomolsky refinery - of course, this is a good project, but other refineries are immediately following it, if you open the valve for one, you open it for all. So far, one project is obvious to me - the Far Eastern Shipbuilding Center. I understand exactly why it is needed.
- Doesn’t the fact that the project has high payback risks bother you?
- It’s a little confusing, but it’s always a choice. Again, if we were interested in projects with low risks and high returns, that would be one thing, but we must invest in places where private business does not go precisely because of high risks.
- But oil and gas companies say that they are in a situation where they cannot attract private money to the project; they can borrow from Asian investors, but they, in the absence of competition, offer unfavorable conditions. Is this the basis for state aid?
- Reason for thought - of course. I understand this argumentation; I am not ready to say that we are putting some kind of barrier for such projects. But we have a finite amount of funds, so we must determine priorities. I ask the Ministry of Energy: from your point of view, from the point of view of energy efficiency, energy security, energy balance, what is more important now - production, transportation, distribution or processing? You tell me - and I will move in your direction.
- And if the Ministry of Energy says that production is important, will you agree to invest the National Welfare Fund in production? Rosneft is asking for two such projects.
- Of course, their opinion will be very important for me, they are specialists. Maybe production is more important than oil refining. My competence is lacking, so I would like to receive guidelines from the Ministry of Energy.
- Are there already applications for project financing? Will there be any priorities when selecting projects, as is the case with funds from the National Welfare Fund?
- There are no formal applications yet, but I think that they will not keep you waiting. We plan to hold the first meeting of the commission by the end of the year.
- Regarding the idea of ​​using the National Welfare Fund to recapitalize banks, which will then allocate these funds to projects: remember, the Ministry of Economic Development proposed to allocate 20% for these purposes - above the 60% limit allowed for Russian projects? So far, the Ministry of Finance has rejected this idea. Will you continue to insist on it?
- We will. After all, we place this money in banks on the terms “key rate plus 1%”, and at the same rate the banks issue money to the final recipients - that is, they do not receive any margin from this operation. By issuing a subordinated loan to a bank, we give it both liquidity and capital, but we give liquidity without a margin for a specific project we have chosen. The bank has worked through this “corvée”, and it still has capital: it will be able to attract funding from the market, through deposits or bonds, without restrictions, use it for loans and earn money from this.
- It’s just that last week the government introduced a bill to the State Duma that allows money to be used, among other things, for simple bank deposits.
- This is not for this scheme with the capitalization of banks, it simply provides an additional tool and additional freedom for maneuver. I hope we won't abuse this.
- The President gave instructions to state-owned companies to make financial flows under control, get rid of non-core assets, and reduce operating costs by 3% per year. How difficult is the process?
- Of course, it’s hard.
- How can this be facilitated? A year ago, an order was already given to reduce the costs of natural monopolies by 10%, but, as far as is known, many companies, instead of reducing them, provided formal replies explaining why they could not do anything.
- The year is not over yet, next year we will see the results of this work. I don’t want to talk in terms of unsubscribes, but it really wasn’t easy. But what can you do - life is life. It's like a sword and shield competition. I am a sword, I want you to spend less, you are a shield, you want to protect yourself from this. But this always happens. The outcome will be some kind of compromise: although we won’t achieve a 10% reduction, we will achieve something. It's better than nothing at all.
Pros from cons
A weakening exchange rate provides benefits to domestic producers by reducing costs. There is a point of view that import substitution will stretch the entire economy, there is another - that the effect will be temporary and short-lived: production can increase due to additional utilization of existing capacities, and no one will invest in new ones given high uncertainty.
In such a situation, the state should support the domestic producer, Ulyukaev believes: provide cheap funding, guarantees - strengthen the positive market trend that appears due to the fact that the manufacturer’s costs are lower than the importer’s costs. It is more profitable to substitute products that can be produced at lower costs than others, gaining advantages in the foreign market. Therefore, Ulyukaev agrees, for the Ministry of Economic Development, import substitution and export support are one and the same: “We want to help those exporting companies whose costs are quite high, but with exchange rate changes their costs are reduced and they get the opportunity to win their share not only domestic, but also on the foreign market."
According to the minister, Russia can compete in the markets of agriculture, food industry, thermal generation, hydrogeneration, energy and energy industry, for example nuclear - “this is simply a golden time for it, we can supply our units to dozens of countries.” All this applies to large and state-owned companies - therefore, the ministry intends to set quotas for orders from state-owned companies from small and medium-sized businesses, says Ulyukaev: “We want a trail of accompanying small and medium-sized businesses to form around state-owned companies that would make components.”
"Vedomosti" dated December 18, 2014

We will present you with significant fragments of this large interview - namely, answers to the newspaper’s direct and most daring questions.

ANTI-CRISIS ECONOMY

The biggest challenge today is to invite investors and start a new business. And we have a breakthrough, I would dare to say, in agriculture. The market is huge, demand allows investors to create an interesting business model and make a profit. Investors came to us from Stavropol, from Tyumen, from Moscow, from Armenia. Investments – about 35 billion rubles. Thanks to the fact that government policy makes it possible to compensate not only the rate, which is very heavy, but also to return capital costs - up to 25%. That is, the model, as businessmen say, is simply magnificent. The production of cucumbers, tomatoes, sweet peppers, strawberries, and flowers is increasing. The price of land is not an obstacle to starting an agricultural business. We are finding legal mechanisms to provide land to strategic investors at a nominal price. Another issue is the implementation of the construction project itself, for example, a greenhouse. Production requires gas, electricity, and water. Plus, we have created 28 industrial parks.

Tax No. 1, just like the absolute majority, is personal income tax. Of course, we want the profit tax to be the leader; this is our dream. We sell regional real estate in Moscow. We are the only entity whose ministries are still scattered in a neighboring entity. In 2017–2018 We will transport all services and ministries to Krasnogorsk.

Some time ago there was an idea to seek payment of income tax at the place of residence. Is all this already forgotten now? No chance? – If we answer in black and white logic – with a chance or without a chance, then rather without. The administration of personal income tax in the country is one of the most effective. Creating jobs is a stronger position. We have managed to create 70,000 high-performance jobs for two years in a row. What does high performance mean? This means a salary of 40,000 or 50,000 rubles.

Of course, I would like 1.2 million people to pay personal income tax in the region, but changing the administration of the entire country because of one entity is wrong and impossible. Still, a stronger position is to create jobs where people live. After all, it’s not only unpleasant that money is leaving the region, it’s about 100 billion rubles. This is also a daily tedious one-and-a-half or two-hour journey for a person in only one direction. I recently spoke with an ophthalmologist who prescribed me glasses. It costs 80,000 rubles. travels daily from Mytishchi to Moscow. And in Mytishchi this position is paid at the level of 60,000 rubles. And I say: “Why are you paying 20,000 rubles?” do you go to Moscow every day?” And she replies: “You know, if I had 70,000 rubles, I would gladly stay, but I have a mortgage, and I have to - I’ve been traveling for seven years now. I spend two hours there, two hours back.” Or we go to the MFC, there is a very nice married couple standing there. It turned out that he is from Elektrougli, the husband is an electrician, works in Moscow, earns 100,000–120,000 rubles. per month. Every morning he travels by train from Elektrougli and back. That is, it really plows every day. He is a professional, the company cannot refuse him, but he is forced to travel. What if he could create a workplace somewhere nearby? This is what I worry about. And if we can solve this problem, people will thank us. I don’t know about everyone else, but definitely the wife of this electrical engineer.

PARKING

– Will you introduce paid parking?

– If people support us, we will. We are discussing this with residents. Looks like it's needed. And we are slowly starting to prepare for this. In Odintsovo, for example, the number of registered cars is approximately the same as in the south of France. I have never seen so many cars on lawns and sidewalks as in Lyubertsy. Residents are very annoyed when it is impossible to park a car or drive a stroller.

– How do you see it – will you introduce paid parking simultaneously in the five largest municipalities?

– Where there is high density, paid parking will gradually appear. As it was in Moscow. As, indeed, in all large cities of the world without exception. No other way was found.

I am deeply convinced that rotation in government bodies - municipal, regional - is mandatory so that a person does not lose motivation. We have a practice of transferring successful colleagues from one municipality to another, replacing functions and competencies. It is obvious that prolonged stay in one place, so to speak, dulls the receptors. And the authorities have no right to lose this nerve. We have district heads who have been working for a very long time - since the 90s, very serious, very effective. We do rotations when we see the need. For a person who has worked conscientiously for 10 or 20 years, we will always find a direction for work.

– We identified 56 indicators. They characterize our priorities - the implementation of May decrees, target indicators of federal and state programs of the Moscow region.

These are precisely the areas that are directly addressed by local heads of municipalities. These are target indicators: elimination of the second shift, the number of municipal and regional roads repaired. Have you updated 10% of the yards or not? What does it mean to update 10% of yards? It would seem an abstract definition. But in fact, these are six mandatory elements: parking, green area, children's playground, lighting, paths, container site. There is an exhaustive list of events that you should hold in your yards. In total, we have 13,400 yards in the Moscow region. I don’t want to overly immerse you in the management system that we are working on. Its essence is work for results. And we have a number of principles - there are seven of them (1. The resident is always right! 2. The team is everything. 3. The result “rules”! 4. Nothing personal! 5. Sensitive power! 6. Change for the better! 7. “Democracy! "), there should be nothing personal here.

MORATORIUM ON CONSTRUCTION

A number of municipalities in the Moscow region that border Moscow are overpopulated. The same Balashikha. When all this began to be built - even before you - urbanists warned: future slums are being built in the Moscow region. The lower middle class lives there. If the economy goes down, people are out of work and we end up with hundreds of thousands unemployed, etc.

– You chose the city very accurately. Godlessly, I am not afraid of this word, it was Balashikha that was built up. But the point is not even that a crazy concrete jungle appeared there, but that during this time no significant jobs were created there. And now every morning you have to try to run into the train. And there are about 120,000 people who travel from Balashikha every day. That is, 30% of the working population rushes to Moscow from 7 to 9 am. And in the evening - back. How to embroider? To begin with, we declared a moratorium on new construction. They canceled what they could have canceled and stopped. There are already issued permits that we cannot cancel.

MASTER PLAN AND SITE CONSTRUCTION

Do you have an understanding of the direction in which the appearance of the Moscow region will change after the adoption of the general plans?

– Today, compact, spot development is practically impossible. To approve infill development, you will have to go through a public hearing. What will people say when they want to build a residential building in Balashikha instead of a stadium? Therefore, the master plan is a rule for us. It seems that life without rules is sometimes easier, but then difficulties appear. Now we have only 18% of the master plans.

So we say: we are leaders in construction. But can you imagine that in the Moscow region only 18% of municipalities have master plans? And then – who financed the development of these master plans? Land owners! What can a land owner provide for in a regional plan?

We paid 1 billion rubles. last year, by the end of the year we will have 98% of the master plans. After many public hearings. Another very important thing: when we started coordinating the general plans, we saw that residential buildings were often superimposed on forest lands. This story is typical not only for the region, but also for the entire country - this has been the case since the 80s and 90s. We are now working with the federal government to resolve these issues.

You talked about ratings of heads of municipalities. There is also a rating for governors. And not only the rating that the Department of Internal Policy compiles in terms of popularity. But there is also a government rating. Do you know where you stand there?

- I know. And about the rating for the development of the investment climate in the regions. And about the rating for assessing the effectiveness of government bodies. These are indicative ratings. And, returning to the issues of a favorable climate for investors, according to the investment attractiveness rating in 2013, the region occupied 38th place, and at the end of 2014 it was already 24th. Priority and main indicators in the ranking of government efficiency. In 2011, the region was in 32nd place. In 2014, they entered the top 15 regions of Russia and became 13th. Why 13th? We are losing in terms of indicator dynamics. It is clear: the more developed the region, the more modest the growth rate, because economic development has objective limits. But this is the federal assessment methodology.

ABOUT SAMOPR

A year ago, the ONF accused the Moscow region of inflated PR costs, including your personal ones. ONF activists said that more than 5 billion rubles are spent from the budget on PR.

“We have officially declared that this is not so.” Colleagues didn't understand. And of these 5.9 billion rubles. a significant share is the financing of justices of the peace - 1.7 billion rubles. This can hardly be called PR. As for the media as such, we really have a large share of the costs of creating the 360 ​​TV channel. For us, building such a channel is a very important undertaking, because the Moscow region, like no other region of the Federation, is fragmented both in terms of geographical location and its strong municipalities. It is no coincidence that it was often called both a patchwork quilt and an appanage principality - this should not happen. Figuratively speaking, Odintsovo and Mytishchi, Taldom and Balashikha are different ways of life. And our task was to create a unified information space. And information activity is precisely those capillaries, those vessels that allow us to deliver information, tell us what we are doing.

ABOUT THE ELECTIONS

– Now the Kremlin is giving a public message that the main thing in these elections is not even the number of votes received by United Russia, but competitiveness, openness and legitimacy. During the last elections, our regions refused video surveillance, citing cost.

- I know that. We have everything you need to provide video surveillance. It's better to have it than the other way around. This allows you to avoid provocations. We had incidents in Balashikha and in the Shchelkovsky district.

We also made certain conclusions. And we have no right to succumb to these provocations. Therefore, we are now inviting active social activists, for example, we had elections in Volokolamsk, in the Kolomensky district. They are present at the polling stations as public figures, writing on social networks, taking photographs and filming. Obviously, there should be admission of observers from political parties. We will implement all these principles ourselves. The Moscow region is a very convenient region; you don’t have to travel far. I think that our polling stations will traditionally be in demand by observers.

– Irek Vildanov, a representative of the Moscow Regional Election Commission, became famous for statements almost in the spirit of Ramzan Kadyrov: he called specific observers provocateurs, almost compared them to fascists, etc. Do you agree with this interpretation and the activities of these independent observation organizations?

– Maybe it’s worth changing your occupation then?

“He’s healthy now, thank God.” And there are no complaints about his work from his colleagues from the Central Election Commission and the regional Duma. You need to be more restrained, which is what we recommended to him.